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印度网民评论中国为何比他们发展快这么多
发布时间:2020-03-22 14:25:07   浏览:
译文内容:
quora提问:80年代前,印度经济情况要比中国好得多,然而从那以后中国经济发展速度一发不可收拾,远远把我们印度甩在了后面,造成这个情况的原因是什么,是我们印度人不够努力吗?(阿三还是很有自知之明的)。
网友评论:
Gunjan Saraswat
Firstly China have stable government which is very hard to have in India because of so many parties,even a small regional party having 2 3 seats providing its support to leading party start blackmailing the one for their benefits.For proper development we need a stable government which can make policies and implement them properly but that is what we can just imagine in India.Secondly their efficiency of making economical products as i am working in manufacturing industry i have found that china provide the chemicals and raw materials in very cheap rates which are much lesser than the local suppliers that makes me furious and i started researching about that and found that china has made development zone wise like if a particular area is making motors then whole country’s motors will be manufactured there only. so they are leading world market with their economical products.This type of system is missing in India which increases cost of raw materials itself in the country.Lastly and the important one brain drain. In china their best brains are serving their country while best Indian brains are serving US and Europe but its not their fault they don’t get opportunity in India according to their talent while outside India they not only get good opportunity,handsome pay but also respect for their talent.Caste based reservation also serves a lot in sending them out as many of good students don’t get their due because of reservation in India.One thing I also noticed is office politics which prevails very much in India even people at the senior management level do back bitching there are very less people appreciating your good efforts and more people pulling you backward.Everyone here works only for their benefit not for organizational goals.
 
首先,中国有一个稳定的社会,这在印度是非常困难的,因为在印度有这么多的党派,甚至是一个只有23个席位的小地方党派,也会为了他们的利益,开始勒索执政党。为了适当的发展,我们需要一个稳定的政府,这个政府能够制定政策并适当地执行这些政策。
 
其次是他们生产经济产品的效率。因为我在制造业工作,我发现中国提供的化学品和原材料的价格非常便宜,远低于当地的供应商,这让我感到很愤怒,于是我开始研究,并发现中国已经明智地建设了开发区。如果一个特定地区正在生产汽车,那么整个国家的汽车将只在那里生产。所以他们的经济产品在世界市场上处于领先地位。这种类型的系统在印度是很缺乏的,这增加了原材料本身的成本。
 
最后,也是最重要的一个是人才流失。在中国,他们最优秀的人才服务于国家,而最优秀的印度人才服务于美国和欧洲,但这并不是他们的错,他们在印度没有机会,而在印度以外的地方,他们不仅获得了良好的机会,丰厚的薪酬,也因他们的才华受到别人的尊重。基于种姓的保留制度也在很大程度上促使他们离开学校,因为许多优秀的学生由于在印度的保留制度而没有得到应有的待遇。
我还注意到,办公室政治在印度非常盛行,即使是高级管理层也会在背后说你的坏话,很少有人欣赏你的努力,更多的人试图把你往后拉。这里的每个人都是为了自己的利益而工作,而不是为了组织的目标而工作。
 
Sanjeev Vaidyanathan
Short answer: In my view, India didn''''t grow as fast as China in last 40 years since she didn''''t invest (efficiently) enough in infrastructure and is restricted by a democratic system. Mind you, a democracy is better for human (and environmental) rights but decision making is slow, costly and risk averse.
 
简而言之:在我看来,印度在过去40年里没有像中国那样快速增长,因为她在基础设施方面投资的效率不够,而且受到【ming主】制度的限制。
请注意,【ming主】对人权和环境更有利,但决策过程缓慢、成本高昂且犹豫不决。
 
Cheng Jia
First, China is a socialist country, which means that they cannot only cater to the “sophisticated”, the “rich” and the “educated”. Their development strategy has successfully lifted 600 million people out of poverty (which is a very impressive feat in and of itself). I’m not intimately familiar with the Indian figure.Second, China has the largest high-speed rail network (larger than the rest of the world combined), has the largest online market in the world, the most well-developed mobile payment system in the world, a logistic system that is on par with that of the U.S. and Europe (some may argue theirs is much better…), a sleuth of indigenous internet companies like China Telecom (largest telcom in the world), Huawei (largest telcom device provider in the world), Alibaba (largest online retailer in the world) and Tencent (largest social networking and video game company in the world), etc, etc, etc
 
首先,中国是一个社会主义国家,这意味着他们不能只迎合“先进”、“富有”和“受过教育”的人。它们的发展战略成功地使6亿人摆脱了贫困(这本身就是一项令人印象深刻的成就)。我对印度的情况不是很熟悉。
其次,中国拥有世界上最大的高铁网络(超过世界上其他国家的总和),拥有世界上最大的网上市场,世界上最成熟的移动支付系统,与美国和欧洲相当的物流系统(有些人可能会说他们的物流系统要好得多...),中国有大量的本土互联网公司,比如中国电信(世界上最大的电信公司),华为(世界上最大的电信设备供应商),阿里巴巴(世界上最大的在线零售商)和腾讯(世界上最大的社交网络和视频游戏公司)等等。
 
Martin Andrews
The economic system of China is simply far superior to the one India uses:But more importantly you need a highly intelligent and capable government that has a vision to lead their country into the future, in other words you need either a strong man at the centre or a Meritocracy.People go on and on about the greatness of Democracy but don’t realise that it is simply a gamble, a gamble of luck, America under FDR had won that gamble and American growth rates were most likely the fastest of any major economy.In the end FDR lost, America lost and that is the danger that every Democracy faces and that too is a danger India is currently facing.A true Meritocracy simply doesn’t have that problem because it is a system that weeds out all the unintelligent, incompetent and lazy people who try to get to the top through examinations, experience etc etc, such people like Trump would never get put into power in a true Meritocracy.This is why a fully Meritocratic system lasts for a very very long time, because they are run by people who know what they are doing, not people who get into power by taking advantage of people who despair and are in a desperate position.China is evolving into a true Meritocracy and that is why you see so much change on ground, people outside of China really struggle to understand this system because they have never truly experienced a Meritocratic system and the potential it holds.To put it simply is that China uses the best political and economic system out there while the systems India uses are to put it bluntly “inferior”, this is also why you don’t see the true potential of Indians being fully harnessed, you only see the few successes of the elite and delight and then say “progress”.If you look at history you would realise that Indians are a people of high potential but most Indians don’t realise the kind of miracle that would unfold if we used the right systems, you are looking at something potentially comparable to China.
 
中国的经济体系远远比印度的要好得多:但更重要的是,你需要一个高度智慧、有能力、有远见的政府,带领他们的国家走向未来。
换句话说,你需要一个强大的核心人物,或者一个精英阶层。人们滔滔不绝地谈论着【ming主】的伟大,却没有意识到这只是一场赌博,一场运气的赌博。罗斯福领导下的美国赢得了这场赌博,美国的经济增长率极有可能是所有主要经济体中最快的,所有这一切都是在一个【ming主】体制下实现的。但最后罗斯福失败了,美国也失败了,这是每个【ming主】国家所面临的危险,也是印度目前所面临的危险。
 
一个真正的精英管理体制根本没有这个问题,因为它是一个剔除所有不聪明、不称职和懒惰的人的体制,这些人努力通过考试、经验等等达到最高层,在一个真正的精英管理体制中,像特朗普这样的人永远不会上台。这就是为什么一个完全的精英系统能持续很长一段时间,因为他们是由那些知道自己在做什么的人管理的,而不是那些通过利用那些绝望和处于绝望境地的人而获得权力的人。
 
中国正在演变成一个真正的精英体制,这就是为什么你会看到如此多的变化,中国以外的人真的很难理解这个体制,因为他们从未真正体验过精英体制及其潜力。简而言之,中国使用的是最好的政治和经济体系,而印度使用的体系说白了就是“差”,这也是为什么你看不到印度被充分利用的真正潜力,你只看到少数精英的成功和喜悦,然后就说“进步了”。如果你回顾历史,你会意识到,印度人是一个潜力巨大的民族,但大多数印度人没有意识到,如果我们使用正确的制度,将会出现怎样的奇迹。



Axel Felix
This is a great question. As someone who love and admire India. I have always wanted to know why China devolped so much faster than India. What are the reasons? Is it because China is one party state and India is a Democracy? NO it does not seems to be the reason. There are many countries in the world who have a democratic system yet have devolped very fast. So what are the reasons?In my view Chinese intellectuals from very early on asked them self what is wrong With China? How can we make it better? What kind of political system suits China? How can China meet her potential and so on.These intellectuals organized themselves into a political party known as Communist party of China or simply CPC. These intellectuals had a vision of China’s development. Although not everything went into the plan as there was power struggles between these intellectuals and bad episodes like the Cultural revolution and so on. But the vision was always there from the very beginning.These people had creative ideas which would only work in China and they learned from the experiences of other countries. As they always said we should learn from other countries but not copy it. China learned so much from the old Soviet unx but never copy it.Ok now when it comes to India they never had such a group of intellectuals even if they had very few. The most famous of them being Jawaharlal Nehru, they were not creative enough. With all due respect to Mahatma Gandhi he was not a great intellectual. What i am trying to say is India never had a Group of intellectuals who could answer the questions like How can India industrialize fast? How can we develop a political system which suits India? In what ways India should be changed and so on. What India did was copy,copy and copy.In my view the most important thing for all countries irrespective of political system is meritocracy. I don’t care if a country is Democracy or authoritarian as long as it has meritocracy it is great. India is a Democracy but i reality for many decades it was run by a political dynasty. While North Korea is a one party system but in reality it is an absolute monarchy, where the country is the personal property of a family.All countries should go their own way when it comes to development and modernization. It seems like China knew this from very early on and took action while India didn''''t.
 
这是一个很好的问题。作为一个热爱和钦佩印度的人。我一直想知道为什么中国的发展速度比印度快得多。原因是什么?印度是【ming主】国家吗?不,这似乎不是原因。
世界上有许多国家虽然有【ming主】制度,但发展得很快。那么原因是什么呢?在我看来,中国的知识分子从很早就问自己,中国怎么了?我们怎样才能让它变得更好?什么样的社会适合中国?中国如何才能发挥自己的潜力等等。这些知识分子组成了一个政党,这些知识分子对中国的发展有自己的见解。虽然不是所有的事情都在计划进中,但愿景从一开始就一直存在。
 
这些人有创造性的想法,只有在中国才行得通,他们从其他国家的经验中学到了东西。正如他们经常说的,我们应该向其他国家学习,而不是模仿。中国从前苏联那里学到了很多东西,但从来没有照搬过。好吧,说到印度,他们从来没有这样一群知识分子,即使有人数很少。他们中最著名的是贾瓦哈拉尔.尼赫鲁,他们没有足够的创造力。
 
恕我直言,圣雄甘地并不是一个伟大的知识分子。我想说的是,印度从来没有一群知识分子能够回答像印度如何快速工业化这样的问题?我们怎样才能建立一个适合印度的政治制度?印度应该以什么样的方式改变等等。印度所做的就是复制,复制和复制。
 
在我看来,对所有国家而言,无论其政治体制如何,最重要的是精英政治。我不在乎一个国家是【ming主】还是专制,只要它有精英统治,它就是伟大的。印度是一个【ming主】国家,但实际上几十年来它一直由一个政治王朝统治着。虽然朝鲜是一党制,但实际上它是一个绝对君主制,国家是一个家庭的个人财产。在发展和现代化方面,各国都应该走自己的路。似乎中国很早就知道这一点,并采取了行动,而印度却不知道。
 
Qi Feng
In my opinion, the answers here only touched the surface, none of them has even mentioned the fundamental reason yet.The fundamental reason for the fast growth of countries like Japan, Korea and China are all the same, which is industrialization, industrialization and industrialization!!! No matter what kind of government it is, the essential path for growth is to build up a highly complicated and collaborative industrial system. I will use agriculture as an example. To have an advanced modern agriculture, you will need chemical industry to produce fertilizer and pesticides, a industry to make equipments for the chemical industry, a metallurgical industry to supply metal to build equipments, a mining industry to supply energy and raw material, a bioengineering industry to develop high yield plant species, an irrigation system to store and use water, infrastructure for fast transportation of product, an information system to guide the production, a financial system to support the funding and trading, an education system to teach the knowledge needed for all these industries, and the list keep growing. It is a highly complicated system and takes multiple generations to build it up. It took UK and US hundreds of years to build up the system. Japan, Korea and China started much later. It is almost impossible to compete with developed world at the beginning stage without the help and protection from their governments. But once the system is set up, even if it is very primitive in compare with developed world, it will grow by itself at accelerated pace. A country as small as Korea may not need to have the full system as long as it can participate in a few sectors of the developed world. However, a country as big as China and India definitely need to develop a full system for their growth. Because the existing system in the developed world won’t be able to support such a big population.Most answers here attribute the fast growth of China to the economic reform in the 80s. The industrialization of China actually started from the 50s. A lot people may think uncompetitive industries are useless. Modern industrial society is a highly collaborative ecosystem. A local factory might have lower quality and higher price than its foreign competitors. But it might be a crucial part in the local ecosystem that foreign companies can hardly replace. Moreover, it helps to develop skilled workers and supply chain that will be crucial to evolve to next level. A country without the ecosystem can hardly have advanced technologies work out there. Is it possible to bypass industrialization to become rich? It might work out for small areas like Singapore. But I cannot image a country as big as India can bypass it. The growth model of India already showed its limitation. 10 years ago, the software industry in China was still talking about how to catch up with India in revenue. But now the revenue of software industry in China is multiple times that of India due to strong domestic demand. On the other hand, Indian software industry is still focusing on outsourcing service with limited profitability.
 
在我看来,这里的答案只是表面上的,他们甚至还没有提到根本的原因。日本、韩国、中国等国家经济快速增长的根本原因都是一样的,那就是工业化工业化!
无论是什么样的政府,增长的根本途径是建立一个高度复杂和协作的产业体系。我以农业为例。要拥有一个先进的现代农业,你需要化工生产化肥和农药,为了给化工行业提供设备,矿业需要供应原材料,冶金行业需要制造设备。还要有一个发展高产植物品种的生物工程工业,一个存储和使用水的灌溉系统,一个快速运输产品的基础设施,一个指导生产的信息系统,一个支持资金和贸易的金融系统,一个传授所有这些行业所需知识的教育体系,以及一个不断增长的名单。


Sumit Choudhary
The sole reason behind China’s rapid development is Political stability and strong political will. Post 1970s groomed politicians of China took autocratic steps to revive the economy. They controlled their population by strictly implementing 1 child policy and focussed on Industrialisation. They opened SEZ (Special Economic Zone) and invited the industries throughout world to open their production base there and gave them many incentives like cheap electricity, water, land and supporting Labour Laws. They took advantage of Rising Gloabalisation and became home to many big MNCs. Their pro-industrial attitude brought them the fruits of success in rising economy. Once infrastructure and vendor companies were there, there was no choice left for other big MNCs to bypass china. Even biggest mobile company Apple have their prodction base in China.While in India, political will has not been never so strong and being a democracy, India finds it difficult to implement any strict policy. On one side our economy was weak, rising population made it weaker on other side. Though in one Five Year Plan at the time of Nehru, we tried to focus on “INDUSTRIALISATION” but rest of the time it was all about AGRICULTURE. India tried to distance itself from Globalisation till 1990 when Manmohan Singh, the then Finance Minister implemented LPG norms and opened Indian market to Global players. After that time, we started noticing rise in our economy till 2014. Post 2014 it has again been on decline side due to GST and Demonetisation.Though India has also tried many things like SEZ, but it has achieved partial results only till now. I hope GoI will take necessary steps to pitch up Industrialisation because this is the only sector which will bring mass employment along with it.I hope it would help you understand the rapid growth of China and slow growth of India.
 
中国快速发展的唯一原因是社会稳定和意识。20世纪70年代以后,中国采取了措施来振兴经济。他们通过生育政策来控制人口,并把重点放在工业化上。他们开设了经济特区,并邀请世界各地的行业在那里开设生产基地,并给予他们许多奖励,如廉价的电力、水、土地和配套的劳动法。
 
他们利用日益全球化的优势,成为许多大型跨国公司的大本营。他们亲工业的态度给他们带来了经济增长的成功果实。一旦有了基础设施和供应商,其他大型跨国公司就无法绕过中国。即使是最大的移动公司苹果也在中国有他们的生产基地。
 
而在印度,意识从未如此强烈,作为一个【ming主】国家,印度发现很难执行任何严格的政策。一方面,我们的经济疲软,另一方面,人口增长使经济更加疲软。尽管在尼赫鲁时期的一个五年计划中,我们试图把重点放在“工业化”上,但其余时间都是与农业有关。直到1990年,当时的印度财政部长曼莫汉.辛格实施了液化石油气规范,并向全球参与者开放了印度市场,而印度在此之前一直与全球化保持着距离。
 
从那以后,我们开始注意到我们的经济在2014年之前都在增长。2014年后,由于销售税和废钞令,它再次处于衰退的边缘。虽然印度也在经济特区等方面进行了许多尝试,但迄今为止只取得了部分成果。我希望印度政府采取必要的措施来促进工业化,因为这是唯一能够带来大量就业的部门。我希望这能帮助你们理解中国的快速增长和印度的缓慢增长。
 
 
Siva Kumar
There is no need to delve into endless tables and oppressive data. That is only a waste of time for the reader too. Data, metrics and data points only show what is happening but they can not readily show why and what brought in those. Look at the seed。The reason lies in another dimension. Over decades, China concentrated on two obxtives so far as development is concerned- developing internal industry and aligning its foreign relations to get markets for its produce.From a humble toy-maker of 1950s, it warmed up its way into seriously big & advanced engineering feats. The West, particularly the USA ate from the hands of China in their lust for ever-cheaper consumer goods. They established their plants in China and thence trained the Chinese with their own hands. They looked the other way when Chinese manufacturers flagrantly violated human rights, employed bonded labor, paid pittance in salary, cheated village laborers into patently dangerous industries. China never employed sophisticated technology when it could do with easily available manpower in abundance. Those voices of West didn’t mind when China polluted its air & water and also used manual labor in dangerous industries like chemicals.By the time the West realized it, China had become a power in itself.China, also implemented birth-control, spurred internal employment with massive civil works (like Hitler’s autobahns turning around the economy of the Third Reich) and instituted massive training programs for its workers. China sent its students to USA & West for education & training in advanced science & technology and these experts came back to China to drive the growth.Even today, Chinese projects abroad employ only Chinese workmen. China scouted the world for natural resources and got into contracts for developing those countries. Thus, China got the better of both ends.I guess, this is enough to make one appreciate why China could grow to a position from where it could challenge the USA itself - vision, goals, planning and determination.
 
没有必要探究无穷无尽的表格和令人压抑的数据,这对读者来说也只是浪费时间。数据、度量标准只能显示正在发生的事情,但是它们不能很容易地显示为什么会发生这些事情,以及是什么导致了这些事情的发生。
几十年来,就发展而言,中国集中在两个目标上:发展国内工业和调整对外关系,为其产品争取市场。
 
从20世纪50年代的一个不起眼的玩具制造商,它已经成长为一个大型的、先进的工业基地。西方国家,特别是美国从中国手中买走了更便宜的消费品。他们在中国建立了工厂,并从那里亲手培训了中国人。当中国制造商雇佣债务工人,支付微薄的工资,引用农村劳动力。当中国可以利用大量容易获得的人力资源时,它从不采用尖端技术。当污染了空气和水源,还在化工等危险行业使用体力劳动时,西方并不介意。当西方意识到这一点的时候,中国已经成为了一个强国。
 
中国也实行了计划生育,通过大规模的基建工程(如希特勒的高速公路扭转了第三帝国的经济)刺激了国内就业,并为工人制定了大规模的培训计划。中国派学生到美国和西方接受先进科学技术的教育和培训,这些专家回到中国推动了经济增长。
 
即使在今天,中国在海外的项目也只雇佣中国工人。中国在世界各地寻找自然资源,并与这些发展中国家签订了合同。因此,中国获得了双赢的局面。我想,这足以让人理解为什么中国能够发展到一个可以挑战美国的地位——那就是愿景、目标、计划和决心。













 

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